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There Is A War Going On Between Religion And Science. Is A Truce Possible


by Ian R Thorpe.

The war, let's be honest, is between religious fundamentalists and science fanatics. Each is straying into the other's territory. But both are out of order and should leave the unanswetrable questions to philosophy. Can there be a truce, can the two coexist?

There Is A War Going On Between Religion And Science. Is A Truce Possible

"Religion's truce with science can't hold". a commentator in The Guardian asked. The first question the better informed reader might well ask is "What truce."

Any scientific project seeking to explain the great questions posed by the human condition is doomed to failure and will conclude with the well worn phrase "more research is needed." Any religious belief seeking to explain the 'how's of the universe is encroaching on the territory of science and for those seeking truth science will always win.

One of the most tedious and most often repeated questions in the public debate about faith has been "are religion and science compatible?" It is a question to which there can be no definitive answer and because that is the case, the question will not go away?

The usual answer is that religion and science are compatible because they are not talking about the same things. Religion does not make empirical claims about how the universe works, and to treat it as though it did is to make a categorical error. Therefore the solution would be for each to respect the other's boundaries allowing them to co - exist in a kind of truce like North and South Korea.

The biologist Stephen Jay Gould proposed such an arrangement when he argued that science and religion have non-overlapping doctrines. In his book Rock of Ages, Gould wrote that science deals with "the empirical realm: what the universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two areas do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry." In short, science is empirical, religion is ethical.

A similar approach was taken by by the physicist John Polkinghorne and the mathematician Nicholas Beale in their book, Questions of Truth. They put it thus: "Science is concerned with the question, How? – By what process do things happen? Theology is concerned with the question, Why? – Is there a meaning and purpose behind what is happening?"

It should be a simple distinction but maintaining it proves to be very difficult indeed. Many "why" questions are unanswerable and therefore stray into a very grey area. If you ask: " When iron it heated to almost white hot why does plunging it into cold water to cool it rapidly give us steel (a primitive form of steel) while allowing it to cool naturally returns it to it's original state. Science can answer that at high temperatures certain molecular changes occur and rapid cooling fixes these changes. That explains the process, the how. Why it happens is a different matter and while scientists tie themselves in knots trying to provide a credible answer to questioners, to say "because that's what God intended" is just a cop out.

This example proves there are many things in the world that are not understood, we use them, we benefit from them but we do not understand the forces at work.

The books by Gould and by Polkinghorne and Beale have both been around a few years and we could say of their reasoned approach, that was then, this is now. In the last decade a conflict has broken out between science and religion. This stems from an almost evangelical faith among some scientists that science can answer any questions and in a cop out of almost religious proportions they simply dismiss any questions that they have no answer for coming up against a resurgence of religious faith in response to the failure of science to build a perfect world.

It is necessary to understand that scientific "why" questions do not imply any deliberate action intent. We can ask why the dinosaurs died out, why smoking causes cancer and so on without implying any intentions. In the theistic context, however, "why" questions are usually about intent. Of a number of people with the same disease and given the same treatment, why do some die and others survive. The answer must involve causation and intention otherwise it is not an answer. The only answer that does stand up in most cases is "We don't know."

"We don't know" may satisfy those of us who have studied Hindu or Buddhist philosophy, the Stoics of Ancient Greece or the European pagan tradition but humans are by nature explanation seeking animals and most have not learned to override that impulse.

This means that if someone asks why things are as they are, what their meaning and purpose is, and the respondent puts God in the answer, it almost inevitably lead to a claim that God has set things a certain way way, or intervened in some way, to make sure the divine purpose is achieved. The neat division between scientific "how" and religious "why" questions therefore turns out to be not so neat.

A lot depends on what we mean by 'science'. If the objective of science is to uncover the laws that govern the universe and nature then no-one of any faith should have an issue with that If however the question to be answered relates to the history of the universe we are on entirely different and much more treacherous ground? Question Big Bang theory and the Science Inquisition will jump on you crying "heretic" and demanding that you be burned. And yet supporters of Big Bang theory have had to invent black holes, dark matter, dark energy and inflation (with no evidence whatsoever other than that they must exist or the equations on which our whole model of the universe is based simply fall apart.

Evolution is a theory that flatly refuses to be evidenced by the fossil record unless you begin with the a priori assumption that the theory itself is true even though there is plenty of evidence to indicate that it is a nonsense. Question evolution however and you are again branded a heretic, young earth creationist and a "right wing nut job." And yet although creatures evolve, like Big Bang, the theory is full of holes. This is largely because Charles Darwin's original theory which was based on empirical evidence has been stretched to include ideas like abiogenisis, the notion that life emerged spontaneously as a result of a chemical accident.

Religion should have no problem with real, empirical science. Where there is a problem between the two lies in the area of pseudo - science, theories based on unproven and unprovable assumptions which are used as prisms through which the evidence is filtered and subjectively interpreted and presented as to "proof" that the theory is correct.

It is somewhat astonishing that may well educated people cannot, through the endless circular reasoning involved, understand and accept that humans are unscientific creatures and the mind will see what it wants to see.

From this we see how devotees of "science" don't actually understand what it is (not a political position, a method of working or a dogma but an affirmed body of knowledge based on evidence) but, led by their hatred of not knowing everything they are actually turning it into a religion.

In an approach he calls anthropic fine-tuning, the Christian physicist, Paul Davies, offers us "The Goldilocks Enigma": the conditions in the universe are just right for life to have evolved, and had a few things been just slightly different at the Big Bang, none of us would be here. At the moment, there is no generally accepted scientific explanation for why or how this is so and even big bang theory has been shown to be more full of holes that a kitchen sieve so as the vast majority of scientists totally reject any alternative to Big Bang (the only evidence of which is gathered from mathematical speculations the question "How did life evolve in the universe can only be answered with a resounding "We don't know." To answer otherwise requires an act of faith, a belief in something for which there is no proof.

Taking off his physicist's coat and donning his theologian's hat, Dr. Polkinghorne (sic) answers the "why" question by saying that the life-enabling laws of physics are "graciously provided by the creator". Not only does this introduce a theological why where we'd normally just look for a scientific why, it is also a claim about how the universe came to be the way it is, namely, by divine fiat. It trespasses onto the "how" territory of science, but since it cannot explain the mechanism by which God intervened, nor test the hypothesis that he did so, it is no substitute for a proper scientific answer. On the other hand the scientists currently chasing the epheremeral Higgs Boson, the sub atomic particle which they need to prove exists otherwise the whole scientific theory of how the universe works will simply fall apart and we are back to God or the stoical "it works."

There are ways of understanding religion that do not fall into this God versus science trap. Brauch Spinoza's "God-or-nature" approach, the divine could act with a purpose that was, at root, simply the playing out of natural forces. But the theistic God is "behind" what happens, not simply part of it. This is very close to the Hindu / Buddhist / Pagan idea of "the oneness, a whole of which we are all part.

Alternatively many people of faith say that religion is not about belief at all, and so never explains anything in terms of agency-why. By following that line we can see that any religious belief that involves an interventionist, physically present God and claims that the sacred texts of that faith hold indisputable truths about why things happen, must also be encroaching on questions of how they happen too. And if that is the case the comfortable peace which many claim should exist between science and religion just isn't possible.

The religious believer could bite the bullet, accept that religion does make some empirical claims, and then defend their compatibility with science one by one. But the fact that two beliefs are compatible with each other is the most minimal test of their reasonableness imaginable. All sorts of outlandish beliefs – that the Apollo moon landings never happened, that a marginal increase in the CO2 component of air will certainly cause a global catastrophe, that weather can be controlled so accurately we can rely on the wind to generate all the electricity we need, are scientifically feasible, but that hardly makes them credible. What really counts, what should really make the difference between acceptance and rejection of an empirical claim, is not whether it is compatible with the existing science, but whether an evidence-led, rational examination a problem that offers a better solution than competing alternatives.

So the fact that science is compatible with religion turns out to be a comforting red herring. We should be asking is theoretical science compatible with reality.

How easily science and religion can rub on together depends very much on what kind of religion and what kind of we're talking about. If it is a kind of religion that seeks to explain the hows of the universe, telling us God created everything in seven days, or ends up trying to inculcate such ideas by suggestion, then it is competing with science. In the same way when scientists start trying to control nature and resort to telling lies in order to justify their meddling in what does not need to be meddled in and their refusal to seriously consider possible consequences claiming they are scientists and know what they are doing, then the two are invading each other's territory. If the religion is of a kind that doesn't attempt to explain the hows of the universe, and the science seek to understand nature rather than controlling it then the science v religion debate can move on, free from the illusion that the outcome rests on one question with one answer.

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Is The Day Coming When Courts Will Determine Innocence Or Guilt From Brain Scans
Scientists are really out of control and out of touch with reality when it comes to recognising the limtations of science. When we have people talking about using brain scans to determine innocence or guilt in criminal tries, its time to cut off their research grants, amongst other things.

Bilderberg News
Tomorrow will see the start of the notorious Bilderberg Group annual meeting, held this year at The Grove country House Hotel near Watford, UK. The area around the Grove is already in security lockdown, people living nearby can only reach their homes by showing security passes that they had to submit to ...

No Good Deed Should Go Unpunished
The politically correct way to deal with bullying. Bullying is a horrible thing many of us are subjected to in childhood and some in adult life. Bullies are basically cowards, they victimise the people they think are most vulnerable. I was a rather small boy. Unfortunately I did not submit to being bullied easily. Well if I'm honest I did not submit ...

Monsanto Hi Jack Scientific Peer Review Process
Monsanto have tried tyo ram their poisonous G M foods down our throats but even in america where the Genocidally Modified Food corporation have the government, the legal system, education and academics in their pocket, public opinion is still strongly against Frankenstein Food. Now Monsanto are trying to rig the scientific review process.

Electronic Tattoos To Replace Passwords and Pin Numbers?
Science was ever fascism's whore. A warning about the latest wheeze the science tits have developed for their Fascist bosses, RFID tattoos. The plan is these things will keep tabs on everything you do all the time and you will not be able to access the internet, your mobile phone or your bank and credit card accounts without one.

Carbon Dioxide Is Greening The Planet, Not Killing It
How wrong were the science tits with all their scaremongering about how Carbon Dioxide (CO2) emissions from human activity were going to destroy all life on the palnet. Carbon Dioxide you see is a vital plant nutrient, without it plants cannot live. In fact the optimum CO2 level in the earth's troposphre (the atmosphere layer we live in) at which plant life can flourish is 2000 parts per ...

Everything you Do Is A Sign Of Mental Illness
For years now the criteria defining mental illness have been steadily expanding. This has resulted in more and more people who were previously considered to be sane are now capable of being diagnosed as mad. Conditions like attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), Aspergers syndrome, depression, and even common anxiety are increasingly being diagnosed, particularly among children between the ages of three and 17.

Pastor Promised Congregation His Penis Contained Holy Milk Brazilian Evangelical Christian Pastor Valdeci Sobrino Picanto has been arrested after convincing followers of his 'mission' that his penis contained holy milk., "He has been arrested after deceiving the faithful into believing these foolish lies by using the name of the Holy Spirit", one of his victims told Brazilian prosecutors ...

Globalisation, Misinformation, Deception, False Store Fronts ...
Enniskillen (pop 14,000) will shortly host a meeting of the G8 global economic forum. Now G8 has declined in importance since the formation of the G20 group so you might think its precipitous fall down the league table of political influence is why they have ended up in little, out of the way Enniskillen.Or cynics amongst us (me for example) might thing the great and good have chosen ...

Obama Will Sign U.N. Firearms Treaty After It Was Rejected by Senate
Once again The Emperor Obama has ignored Amerca's democratically elected congress and done what he wanted to in spite of the measure having been voted down.

Internet Monitoring System To Stalk Social Media Users Who Question Safety Of Vaccines
Bill Gates smiles creepily as he prepares a vaccine. What most people don't know is super - rich elitist and bulderberger Gates was videoed not long ago talking about how vaccine can be used to DEPOPULATE the planet No wonder he has that creepy leer on his face.

Education Is Out, Indoctrination Is In.
This is about a teacher in america who has quit the profession in disgust at the way left wing indoctrination is replacing neutral education in schools. Many British teachers have said similar things and Daily stirrer occasional contributor Sally Redfern quit the teaching profession for the same reason.

Europe Kicks Monsantos Arse Over GMOs
While the politicians and bureaucrats are mad to push GMOs down our throats (literally) publich opinion hostile to Franlenstein Foods has pushed Monsanto out of Europe ... for the present.

Forget Recession, US banks Post Record Profits
Do you feel the value of your savings has been eroded and the buying power of your earnings reduced by higher taxes and austerity measures governments have introduced to 'save the economy.'Yeah but ... we're all in this together aren't we and everybody is making sacrifices, you might well reply. Except we're not all in it together, not everyone is ...

The Most Secretive And Oppressive regime In The Modern World.
When talk turns to the suppression of free speech by totalitarian regimes, we think of Soviet Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, the theocratic dictorships of the middle east and the regimes of bemedalled buffoons with a taste for killing their country's citizens. but increasingly it is governments in the west that are suppressing freee speech.

What Happened To The Idea Of Financiasl Privacy
Not long ago I posted a report here about the near - criminal Payday Loans industry, their usurious interest rates and implacable pursuit of defaulters. I have never had any dealings with loan sharks so a little research was necessary, a few clicks and I was ready to write.Since then, although I gave no personal details to anybody I have received a steady stream of ...

Time For The New World Order Says U.S. Elder Statesman In the video below, former U.S. Secretary Of State and perpetual Bilderberg Group attendee Henry Kissinger calls for the United States to cooperate with authoritarian regimes such as China to create a globalist totalitarian government. Now maybe those who habitually scream "Conspiracy Theory"

The Bio Tech Rape Of India
Not long ago a Tweet from Dr. Vandana Shiva ( tv.greenmedinfo.com/category/vandana-shiva/ ) generated quite a stir within the blogosphere by comparing Genetically Modified Organisms to rape. The Tweet read: "@drvandanashiva #MarkLynas saying farmers shd be free to grow #GMOs which can contaminate #organic farms is like saying rapists shd have the freedom to rape." Predictably the tweet provoked outrage, not least among ...

Obama's Lust For War Could Turn Out Very Badly For The West
For two years the great peacemaker and joybringer, Mr. Hopey Changey Man himself, Brack Hussein Obama has been trying to find a way to intervene in the Syrian civil war on the side of the anti Assad rebels and fanatical Islamic Jihadists without pissing off Russia and China too much.

In Scotland's Brave New World Every Child Will Have A State Nanny
The putative government of Scotland is trying to push tough laws which will appoint to every child a Nanny State nanny to ensure parents and not abusing their kids. If we think in terms of beating and neglect that seems reasonable but when you remember social workers have yelled abuse because parents kept children off school, let them ...

The Importance Of Free Speech And A Free Press
Politicians around the developed world including leaders of the two most powerful democracies, Barack Obama and David Cameron have been falling over themselves to join the attack on free speech. On subjects as diverse as climate…

Rioting In Sweden: Unrest may spread across Europe, warns Red Cross chief
As the systemic problems in the Eurozone exacerbate the effects of the global economic crisis for European nations, the inevitable civil unrest has erupted in the last place we would expect, Sweden.

Does New Obama Speech Signal The End Of Internet Freedom?
From when I first started reading of Barack Obama I recognised in his vacuous words, in the speeches crammed with cliche and banalities that we were told was "soaring rhetoric", a man of little ability with a huge desire for power. When it became apparent that he was being pushed towards the U S Presidency by the unseen political forces that really rule our planet ...

Stupid (Swedish) Coppers Of The Week Fail To Quell Stockholm Riots
An amazing reaction from Swedish Police to a week of rioting prompted this satire on Swedish Politically correct thinking.

Amsterdam's twin Prostitutes, The Fokkens Twins Retire At 70
Either of the Fokkens sisters (yes that really is their name) could be the oldest working prostitute in the world, they are certainly the oldest twin prostitutes in the world. And now they are to retire.

Chemical Cosh For Kids That Do Not Conform
Indiscriminate prescription by doctors of Ritalin and similar drugs to children whose behavioural traits from brashnes to shyness were falsely (not wrongly, falsely) diagnosed as ADHD has always been controversial. Now an admission from the father of ADHD reveals something very shocking ...

The Banksters Bullion Heist: How The Gold Market Was Hi Jacked And The Banksters Robbed Us All
The rapid drop in gold prices recently has been said by some to be a sign a new economic crisis is imminent while others say it is a sign economic confidence is returning and the slump is over. It is neither, but rather a demostration of how banksters rig the markets in gold, commodities, currency ans shares, and rob us all.

Fears Of Violence And Unrest As English Town Prepares For Bilberberg Rally
The shadowy and secretive Bilderberg Group will hold their annual meeting at The Grove country house hotel complex just outside watford, England in early June. As usual this gathering of the super - rich and super - powerful will be accompanied by levels of secrecy and security never seen elsewhere.

Global Warming Theory Debunked By NASA
NASA, America's National Aeoronautical And Space Agency was in the forefront of the Anthropogenic Global Warming scare. Do you remember 'The Science Is Settled'? Well it wasn't, a trickle of thoise really awkward bastards who insist on thinking for themselves became a torrent and now even NASA are admitting it was all a hoax based on dodgy statistics and fraudulent physics.

What Is All That Aid Money Really being Used For
The marketing hype accompanying wars becomes progressively more boring and predictable. Whenever a "coalition of the willing" of western governments and their rather unsavoury regional allies deploys military intervention, it is certain the European Union will host or participate in a “donors’ conference”. These grotesque charades have become a feature Afghan campaign since 2001. When Gaza was bombed for three weeks in late 2008 and early 2009, the EU rushed...

Angelina's Tits: Was the world too quick to celebrate the unnecessary double mastectomy
Was the world right to make Angelina Jolie a hero for having her healthy breasts removed? Now the commercial motivations behind the move are coming to light, it seems Ms. Jolie's double mastectomy on the strength of manmmograms that revealed patented genes that contribute little to cancer risk but much to corporate profits could have been a career destroying misjudgement.

Prescription of dangerous antidepressants that cause sudden death is rapidly expanding
The criminality of Big Pharma goes on and on. Stop them committing one crime, they start another ten scams, frauds or deceptions to make up for the lost profits.

'The list of antidepressants that can cause sudden death is growing exponentially, with citalopram - under the brand names ...

Two stories that show how the banksters plant to control your cash and how you spend it
I have written many articles over the years about how machines and technology are talking over our lives. Slaves To The Machine ( www.scribd.com/doc/117509296/Slaves-To-The-Machine ) is a keynote article for all my websites and blogs and new stories bringing more evidence to support the predictions I make in it are emerging constantly. Two new ones appeared this week ...

He Who Controls The Food Controls The Universe.
A reference to Frank Herbert's Dune in the title, but this is not a fan piece. While the US Administration bends, lifts its shirt and invites fascist biotech corporate to fuck the American public up the arse, it's good to know some people are stll fighting to keep some democratic control of what goes into our bodies.

All Your Gene Are Belong Us - You Don't Own Your Body, Obama's Government Does Barack Hussein Obama is rapidly becoming known as the sellout President, he has welched on every electoral promise and bent over backwards (and forwards we hear) to accomodate his corporate paymasters. Well some of us did try to warn you he was The New World Order's houseboy. Now he is even giving the corporations rights over citizens bodies.

He Who Controls The Food Controls The Universe Remember that famous line from Frank Herbert's science fiction novels in the Dune series, "He who controls the spice controls the Universe"? Just substitute the word food for spice and the line is starting to look eerily prophetic. Greenpeace the environmental protection group claimed a rare victory against the march of corporate fascism when

Washington Signals Fears Over Dollar
Over the past month there have been some bizarre movements in financial marketsthat can only be explained as a conspiracy to protect the US dollar from the inevitable consequences Federal Reserve’s policy of Quantitative Easing (QE) which has been going on since the financial crisis began in 2008.

Economic Insanity: We Spend $11 million to create each green job
Cast you mind back to the last round of elections where you live. Do you remember al those politicians promising to make the economy greener, to create...

Lies, Damned Lies and ... umm... Those Other Things ... oh yeah, statistics.
Were I able to muster the kind of blind faith Mr. Chivers and other "science" nerds place in statistics I would invest it in one of the traditional religions and at least be able to convince myself there is a chance of being resurrected into the life eternal. As it is, unlike Science fans who proclaim their atheism but have a zealots faith in science, I am a true sceptic...

Children Given Chemical Cosh For Fictitious Disease

Critics of the Ritalin disaster which saw many lived ruined by the prescription of 'bonkers' drug Ritalin for "ADHD" are now getting support from an unexpected quarter. The German weekly Der Spiegel quoted in its cover story on 2 February 2012 the US American psychiatrist Leon Eisenberg, born in 1922 as the son of Russian Jewish immigrants, who was the “scientific father of ADHD” and who said at...

Looming Health Crisis: Wireless Technology and the Toxification of America
As a multitude of hazardous wireless technologies are deployed in homes, schools and workplaces, government officials and industry representatives continue to insist on their safety despite growing evidence to the contrary. A major health crisis looms that is only hastened through the extensive deployment of “smart grid” technology.

Scientific Dictatorship: The Total Surveillance Society Is Coming Soon.
Just because you're paranoid, it does not mean they are not watching you. The totall surveillance society is spreading as fast as your freedom is disappearing. CCTV, Drones, Google data snooping, giant databases, everything you do is monitored and logged.

War On Terror, War On Drugs, Jihad Against Junk Food
why have the elite taken against 'junk food' a concept for which their is no accepted definition. Well there has been talk of a tax on fatty foods but that went quiet when it was pointed out pate de fois gras, Chateaubriand, Steak Diane and other gourmet treats were very fatty.

Monsanto Owns The Life Reproducing Process Says U S CourtPoliticised Judges show bias in finding for the Corporate giant and helping advance its agenda to control the food supply. This is the corporation that wants to make sure nobody ever eats ant product, plant or animal, that is not genertically modified. And the shits who have hijecked our societies, the politicians, lawyers, bankers and scientists are happy to sell us out to these fascists and help create their Brave New World.

Eat Insectes, good food is only for elitists says United Nations

Very survivalist, very Soylent Green. The scientific advisers of that hotbed of elitism where the politicians, international lawyers, bankers and top academics, the U N (United Nazis) has been thinking about the incipient food crisis. And they say the food shopping list of all us ordinary punters in future will include Bread, Milk, Grubs, Beetles, Maggots, Locusts, Worms and Spiders.

The Jihad On Junk Food
You must have grown tired of all the wars governments are fighting. Not shooting wars (although the war on terror is war on an abstract concept) but war on smoking, war on drugs, war on crime, war on anti - social behaviour and the one they will never win, the war on alcohol. Government's must have grown tired too, or maybe