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Philo and Sophia

The Infallibility Of Science, The Divinity Of Jesus and A Pope


by Ian R Thorpe.

When a question about why so many seemingly rational people accept the idea of Jesus's divinity was posted at a site I use a very lively thread developed. Strangely it was not the Christians who were pedantic and resisdtant to new ideas but people who claim they are atheists and agnostics.

The Infallibility Of Science, The Divinity Of Jesus and A Pope. by Ian R Thorpe

As a non believer my interest in this topic was sparked when a contributor at gather.com (a closed site for members only) using the name "Jojo the dog faced boy" posed the question Why are many rational people prepared to accept the divinity of Jesus? Jojo (a man of considerable intellect hiding behind a mask of Gumpish simplicity) is quite happy with the idea of Jesus as a historical reality but not with the Son of God, Immaculate Conception stuff.

It sparked a lively comment thread, with believers and non believers piling in to repeat the dogmas of their creed. A creed on non belief? you might well ask. Oh yes, there are several in fact. There are the followers of the pseudo liberal, crypto fascist political correctness cult whose philosophy is to make sure individualism, independent thought and personal belief are subsumed under a heavy cloak of orthodoxy so that all the people will on command hold hands and sing Kumbiya and thus banish poverty, injustice, disease and unfairness and create an instant utopia. Then there are the believers in the Obamessiah cult who are sure is people would stop thinking for themselves and accept the Obamessiah as their saviour then the economy would be fixed, nobody would have to work as the earth would give forth of it's own bounty and all the straight men and women would become turd burglars, rug munchers, trannies and perverts overnight. Above them in the hierarchy of looniness come the science worshippers who believe the answers to all the great questions can be found in mathematical equations using numbers someone made up. A motley crew indeed. Next to them religious fundamentalists, young earth creationists and and people who believe in the soup dragon seem comparitavely sane.

But comment threads on questions such as the one Jojo posted always come down to "Does God exist?" "Why do people cling to religion when science is clearly omnipotent, omnipresent and infallible?" and "Why do people disagree with crypto fascist pseudo liberals when the latter are so obviously right about everything?"

The problem stems from the fact that believers in the new synthetic religions will persist in trying to answer questions that are unanswerable, to apply reason and logic to that which is irrational and illogical. When considering this question my mind is drawn to these lines written by Alexander Pope:

... Know then thyself, presume not God to scan;
The proper study of mankind is man.
Placed on this isthmus of a middle state,
A being darkly wise, and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the sceptic side,
With too much weakness for the stoic's pride,
He hangs between; in doubt to act, or rest;
In doubt to deem himself a god or beast;
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reas'ning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks to little or too much;
Chaos of thought and passion all confused;
Still by himself abused, or disabused;
Created half to rise, and half to fall;
Great lord of all things, yet a prey to all;
Sole judge of truth, in endless error hurled;
The glory, jest and riddle of the world! ...
(from An Essay On Man by Alexander Pope)

Richard Dawkins, geneticist, author of The God Delusion and allegedly founder of militant atheism, has suggested that Prime Minister David Cameron is "not really" a believer in God but a "believer in belief", one of those people who, though in themselves non-believers in the divine deity, nonetheless believe in religion as a beneficial part of society, that faith is "good for the community" and helps to bind the nation into a coherent cultural unit. Dawkins is rather presumptuous to assume he knows what Cameron really believes when The Prime Minister has said his faith "sort of comes and goes". David Cameron's confession of a "fairly classic sort of Church of England faith" may suggest a hypocritical position, his attitude towards whatever it is he thinks he should believe in being ambivalent until a show of piety is politically expedient. His enthusiasm for gay marriage hints at a certain moral relativism. But on the available evidence Mr. Cameron is no atheist and that Dawkins has no grounds for saying otherwise. (Apart of course from that , solipsistic "progressive liberal" / militant atheist assertion that "evidence is whatever one of us says it is.")

Dawkins does raise an valid point however. There are a lot of people in every walk of life who believe that any kind of religious faith, even one that does not require a total belief in the existence of a supreme being, is better than none. Some say they find it comforting to think there is some higher power especially when they look at the mess humans have made of everything. Others while not deeply convinced of the presence of any superior being let alone one that is all knowing and all seeing, still find the feeling of belonging to, of being part of some kind of community with shared beliefs and values helps them cope with the vagaries of life.

As guest editor of the New Statesman's Christmas issue this year, Dawkins wrote: "A depressingly large number of intelligent and educated people, having outgrown religious faith themselves, still vaguely presume without thinking about it that religious faith is somehow good for other people, good for society, good for public order, good for instilling morals."

It is this attitude that lies behind Prince Charles's reported wish to be known, when he eventually ascends to the British throne, as "Defender of Faiths" rather than as defender merely of the Anglican faith; and also behind the Tony Blair Faith Foundation with which the former prime minister, a Catholic convert, is striving to unite the world's various religions as a force for social progress. The idea that to believe in anything, whether it exists or not, is better than having no belief; and that any belief, however deluded, makes you a better person than a non-believer is hard to support. There is however scientific evidence that belief, ritual and superstition can help conquer illness and also enhance athletic and intellectual prowess.

The Crux of Dawkins' questioning of David Cameron then is; "How can it be virtuous to believe in something that is obviously not true? Yet the whole point of belief is, is it not, to put faith in on something that cannot be proved? And we all, do we not, believe in things that have not and cannot be proved. Look at the scienceheads insistence that Big Bang is a fact. And yet all they can offer to support that assertion is mathematic speculation based on highly subjective interpretations of data gathered by capturing radio waves that have travelled across the universe for billions of years (allegedly - could be anything really).

Belief in belief for its own sake is so prevalent that it has been suggested many non believers feel compelled by peer pressure to profess a belief they do not feel. That may be so, all I can say is I have never felt such pressure. Strangely, if we observe society, it is often people who cannot or will not accept religious propositions for which no empirical evidence exists (though they may be willing to accept such notions from the science cultists) who tend to suffer more self-doubt and anxiety and are more likely to seek professional help in dealing with their self doubt and insecurities than those who are prepared to take that great leap into the dark and let God, Jesus, Allah or something into their lives. This insecurity among those who deny faith and insist they are only interested in that which is supported by "scientific" evidence may help to explain why books denying the existence of the supernatural – Dawkins's God Delusion or Christopher Hitchens God Is Not Great for example, have topped the non fiction bestseller lists. Even in our overwhelmingly secular, materialistic society, belief in God is still regarded as a socially acceptable position while non-believers need constant reassurance that their atheism is in fact a rational lifestyle choice.

In my experience it is not what one believes in that is important but the belief itself.

Maybe there is something in the idea that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed on in your philosophies" Prof. Dawkins, after all.

Related Posts:
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Mathematics and RealityIn all of our blogs and web sites the Greenteeth team have been critical of those science fans who are turning science into a religion. Scientists deny this of course even in the face of the evidence. Here Ian R Thorpe shows you that the idea of mathematics as God is nothing new, it has been around longer than Christianity in fact.
Vilified' Christians 'fear arrest' as Neo Nazi Secularist Persecution Increases Says Former ArchbishopFormer Archbishop of Canterbury Robert Carey has again defended the richts and freedoms of Chistians against what he feels is persecution by militant secularists. In a submission to thre EWuropean Court Of Human Rights Dr. Carey has spoken of fears that political activist jusdges and lawyers are showing anti - Christian bias in their judgements.
Science cannot provide all the answers, there is room for faithWhy, in these days when the militant atheist supporters of Richard Dawkins and his fellow travellers are so ready to decry and belittle religiopus faith and claim science has proved God does not exist, do so many eminent scientists still believe in God, including a number who have made carers in science but are very active in their respectoive churces?
You Don't Have To Be Good At Maths To Understand ComputersA recent survey revealed a high number of British adults are poor at mathematics. This is blamed for ourt falling behind in technology related businesses and professions. But it it necessary to be a whizz at quadratic equations to understand computer. Quite the opposite says former Information Systems Management Consultant and hater of abstract maths Ian Thorpe.
Richard Dawkins Calls On Atheists To Riduicule Religious PeopleRichard Dawkins called on atheists to "ridicule and show contempt" toward religious people at a Reason Rally in Washington this week. The event, billed as the "largest gathering of the secular movement in world history", had thousands of non-believers and
There Is A War Going On Between Religion And Science. Is A Truce PossibleThe war, let's be honest, is between religious fundamentalists and science fanatics. Each is straying into the other's territory. But both are out of order and should leave the unanswetrable questions to philosophy. Can there be a truce, can the two coexist?

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KEYWORDS: faith, belief, religion, agnotic, agnosticism, atheist, atheism, militant, evangelical, christian, science, church, philosophy, god, christian, ianrthorpe, Ian Thorpe, existentialism

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COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDED READING AROUND THE WEB

In this section we do not necessarily support the views expressed in linked articles but try to give a coss section of interesting and well written articles that we think are likely to stir things up a bit.

COMMENT:
(A random and ecletic mix of what we thought was worth reading recently)

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I held off blogging this yesterday in hopes that video would emerge but after almost 24 hours I’ve given up hope. It started when Romney advisor Eric Fehrnstrom tweeted: ...

The second front - the new fear and panic tactic to replace AGW
Apr 22, 2012 Greens If the struggle to put climatology back on a scientific footing were not bad enough, the UN has just set up a new intergovernmental body, which will push biodiversity as the new excuse to "scare 'n' tax".

Inequality: a middle-class obsession by Daniel Ben-Ami
Unlike past warriors for equality, today’s campaigners simply dislike both the super-rich and ‘trailer trash’.

Executive Order 13547: “The Sleeping Power Grab” (by Erika Johnsen)
To be fair, President Obama’s executive-order output hasn’t unreasonably outpaced that of his predecessors – his especial willingness to actively circumvent Congress and snatch huge gobs of power for the federal bureaucracy only makes it feel like he has. In July of 2010, President Obama signed executive order 13547 – “Stewardship of ...

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